Kanoya Ali (00:02):
Welcome to Lights to Operate LTO. A podcast that takes you inside the work happiness of Chicago Street to reduce gun violence and transform lives. I'm Kanoya Ali.

Peter Cunningham (00:13):
And I'm Peter Cunningham.

Kanoya Ali (00:17):
Today we're talking to Abdul Haqq, also known as Dontay Banks or Big Durk who served 26 years of a life sentence Before becoming a life coach curriculum specialist at Chicago Cred. We're exploring his

Peter Cunningham (00:31):
Journey from the streets of Englewood to federal prison, his transformation through Islam, and how he's using his influence as an OG and father of rap superstar little Dirk to guide young people away from violence through non-aggression principles. If you haven't already, hit subscribe and let's get started. Let's

Kanoya Ali (00:49):
Get started. Mr. Banks, Abdul Haqq. Big Durk man. Welcome man. Welcome to LTO License to Operate. Okay, this is our new podcast.

Big Durk (01:07):
Okay. That's the first time I heard the name of it. You heard

Peter Cunningham (01:11):
The phrase right? You know what

Big Durk (01:12):
It means, right? Yeah. What does it mean to you? Well, according to the outreach program and their division is something like you can go somewhere and be able to deal with the people in that neighborhood and be relaxed and at ease with dealing with 'em. They comfortable with talking to you that time? Is that what this is?

Peter Cunningham (01:35):
Yep,

Kanoya Ali (01:37):
That's what it is. And that's

Big Durk (01:38):
What, so when here we supposed to feel like

Kanoya Ali (01:41):
You got the lights to operate, only way you get on this couch is if you got the lights to operate. My

Big Durk (01:46):
Brother. Okay.

Kanoya Ali (01:48):
In Chicago and throughout s you have had a very vibrant and respectable presence. Why do you think that is?

Big Durk (02:04):
Well, if you're talking about from a street perspective, most guys young and old, respected way you carry yourself, especially if you're a standup guy, you're a solid guy, you're a strong, you hold your own, you go to prison, you don't be a rat. Different things like that. You don't be in there doing a bunch of foul stuff, so you come out with a good name. It is the same as you went in with. So guys respect that.

Peter Cunningham (02:35):
Yeah. Well you have quite a story, so why don't you start off by telling us a little bit about what it was like growing up in Chicago for you?

Big Durk (02:43):
Well, growing up in Chicago, like all inner cities, it's rough. It's tough. You got a lot of things going on there. You adapt to your environment and try to make your way through that environment the best way you can. And through the streets and especially Inglewood G aggression, it's a lot of things hustling going on there, a lot of things going on there, gang affiliations and different things like that. So you kind of find your way through that concrete jungle and find out really what, I guess we could say what beast you'll play, what role you'll play, who you'll turn out to be coming through them, jungles, them streets like that.

Peter Cunningham (03:23):
You were Englewood Auburn Gresham, that's where you grew up?

Big Durk (03:25):
Englewood and Gresham, yeah.

Peter Cunningham (03:27):
Yeah. And that was in the eighties and nineties?

Big Durk (03:30):
Yeah, 70 eighties and nineties,

Peter Cunningham (03:32):
Seventies. Eighties and nineties. Yeah.

Big Durk (03:33):
Yeah. So more seventies and eighties and beginning of the nineties I got locked up in 93, so had a few years in the nineties. That was the time.

Peter Cunningham (03:48):
Yeah. I know a little bit about you being locked up, we'll get to that in a minute, but talk a little bit more about coming up. I'm just interested in hearing a little bit more about what was it really like as a kid? What age were you when you started to gravitate towards the streets as opposed to being at home and things like that?

Big Durk (04:08):
Well, one of the things is coming up like say you in the concrete jungle. So it is a time when you got to start making that decision based upon your family level of property. So the poor you is the more the younger African-Americans going to move towards the streets to start trying to make a way and trying to survive out there. And this is the type of thing, this is what I was confronted with, have a family out there being convicted, have a family out there that's doing real bad. So you just start turning to the streets and start making a way start feeding and keeping the family together.

Kanoya Ali (04:51):
You grew up in a single parent home?

Big Durk (04:53):
Yeah, my mother, yeah.

Kanoya Ali (04:55):
How many of your siblings?

Big Durk (04:57):
There's 10 of us.

Kanoya Ali (04:59):
So just for somebody to wrap their mind around a child in an impoverished area with nine other siblings and a single mom. And where were you at in the 10?

Big Durk (05:13):
I'm the fourth.

Kanoya Ali (05:14):
The fourth. So you basically in the middle of the crew. So you can imagine just this for they once again for the audience to be able to wrap they mind around. Okay, this is how this started. Did you finish high school or did you

Big Durk (05:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, still right now. Paul Robinson do a reunion every year. I went to probably about one or two since I done been out.

Peter Cunningham (05:38):
What year did you graduate?

Big Durk (05:40):
88.

Peter Cunningham (05:41):
Okay. Alright. And then you said you went into prison in 92, right? 1993. 93. So talk a little bit about what happened in those five years from 88 to 93 from the end of high school until you went away to

Big Durk (05:55):
Prison. Okay. Right. So the time when a lot of stuff, it was up in that high school era that coming home that time and seeing all the furniture on the street, that's really what got it kicked off right there.

Peter Cunningham (06:09):
Your family was evicted.

Big Durk (06:10):
Yeah. So coming home, seeing that, I mean you can imagine if you never had that experience, you can imagine coming home and

Peter Cunningham (06:22):
Honestly I can't imagine it, but it's never happened to me. But I do know about it happening and of course your mother had 10 kids. 10 kids. So some of them must've been pretty young still, right?

Big Durk (06:32):
Yeah, still love holding babies. She's still holding and I think, yeah, the youngest, your little brother. So he was just about at that age right there, stealing the taller age bracket right there. So seeing all that and seeing her crying and seeing the whole little scene right there. So I think that

Kanoya Ali (06:55):
That pushed that button for you.

Big Durk (06:56):
Right. So that kind of, because the older brothers locked up, your

Peter Cunningham (07:02):
Older brother was already

Big Durk (07:02):
Locked up? No older brothers.

Kanoya Ali (07:06):
Oh, older

Big Durk (07:06):
Brothers in

Kanoya Ali (07:06):
The community? No,

Big Durk (07:08):
My older brother, his

Kanoya Ali (07:09):
Older brothers locked up.

Big Durk (07:13):
So three of 'em is already gone in jail. So that leads the responsibility of what's next on me.

Peter Cunningham (07:21):
So literally one after another was headed off to jail.

Big Durk (07:23):
Yeah. You was asking about the environment I was raised in. This is the environment you raised in. So older brothers in the street already here, you as you even going to follow that trend. But I'm really, really trying to push school really trying to not be a part of that trend right there. But it looked like it always pulled you in one way or another. So

Kanoya Ali (07:46):
After you graduated you went to what ITT?

Big Durk (07:50):
Uhuh? DeVry. DeVry. So you're trying to pull away, but

Kanoya Ali (07:55):
College DeVry Technical Institute.

Big Durk (07:58):
Yeah.

Kanoya Ali (07:59):
What was you trying to study there?

Big Durk (08:01):
Well I went for electrician electronics because I was into a lot of electronics. I liked electronics back then because as a kid I used to open stuff up all the time and see how it works. Yeah, see how it worked or see can I fix it Because you put it back together I guess. Yeah, you go through the alley, you might see a old turntable or something like that. Yeah, y'all know what turntables got. If I ask a younger guy a turntable, he don't

Peter Cunningham (08:28):
Know what I know what turn I got one right upstairs.

Big Durk (08:29):
Oh yeah? Oh yeah. So you see all this stuff out in the alley. So I used to try to grab it and try to see can I fix it. So that's kind what pushed me into the fry.

Kanoya Ali (08:43):
And how long were you there

Big Durk (08:44):
With DeVry?

Kanoya Ali (08:45):
Yeah,

Big Durk (08:46):
I stayed there about two, three years. I graduated from it.

Kanoya Ali (08:52):
You graduated from DeVry?

Big Durk (08:53):
Yeah.

Kanoya Ali (08:55):
Okay. So even though you was involved in the street, you still went to school

Big Durk (09:01):
Because that's always been a passion of mine. I love education, I love learning. So that's even when Chicago cred, that's why. Because I always liked teaching. So that's one of the things I always had a passion for teaching all the time. So wherever you see me at, I was always teaching a lesson or something. It's always a school with me. If you even in prison, if you with me, it's always a school time. It ain't never, we just not Finn never kick a bo out. I always be something that you help one of us to figure some things out in life.

Peter Cunningham (09:37):
You started having a couple of kids too, right? You started raising a family? Started a family,

Big Durk (09:41):
Yeah. Yeah, my oldest son, Dante Banks Jr. Then my daughter, my Kida banks, then kid after kid from there. Then I got my other daughter, Isha Banks and then Kiara Banks and then Dirk Banks.

Peter Cunningham (10:02):
So jump ahead, you stayed involved in the streets and then you got caught up in something, right?

Big Durk (10:08):
Yeah, the feds finally jumped in because I guess the locals figured that they couldn't get me.

Peter Cunningham (10:16):
They knew about who you were already? Oh

Big Durk (10:17):
Yeah, yeah. By then kind of ranking and the gang. So

Peter Cunningham (10:26):
What gang

Big Durk (10:26):
Was it? The gds.

Peter Cunningham (10:28):
The gds? Yeah.

Big Durk (10:30):
By then I guess they said let the feds get 'em.

Peter Cunningham (10:33):
So you did get convicted by the feds and you were sent away for 26 years, right?

Big Durk (10:39):
No, I was given a life sentence.

Peter Cunningham (10:40):
You were given a life sentence. And this was related to drug dealing?

Big Durk (10:42):
Yeah.

Peter Cunningham (10:43):
Just share a little bit about the journey that led to then. You were not a Muslim at the time, right?

Big Durk (10:47):
No, I went in just regular guy from the street on the same type of time I was on then involved in the organization. But once you go in there and they start saying life sentence, then some things start kind. You got to figure some things out now. Yeah, that's a scary word, right? So you ain't going in there with the same attitude like, oh you think this going to be fun and games? No, you got to start looking at things, start figuring a way about it is and that's your main thing. Trying to figure a way out and stay mentally focus. That's them. The two things you got to do, you can get lost up in there both mentally. You start getting yourself involved in some things and then you find yourself still with that life sentence 20 something years later you ain't did nothing to try to crack a book open and try to figure nothing out. So my first thing was get myself right with the creator God and then start fighting my way up out of there through learning how the legal system

Peter Cunningham (11:55):
Works.

Big Durk (11:56):
So most guys in prison, that's what they come in and do, start getting into law library and trying to figure it out.

Peter Cunningham (12:04):
And you did? Yeah. Got into law

Big Durk (12:06):
Library. Yeah.

Peter Cunningham (12:08):
You with Larry Hoover, you were serving with him or you knew him flew with the GDS or

Big Durk (12:12):
Yeah, I knew him personally. So

Peter Cunningham (12:15):
I mentioned that only because he just got paroled from the federal system. Although he is still facing time in the state

Big Durk (12:20):
System. In the state system. So now the fight is with the state now and God willing shall God willing let Governor Pri who ordered the parole boy will grant him some relief. Also,

Kanoya Ali (12:32):
You was mentored in a sense by Larry Hoover, correct? Right. What did you learn from Larry Hoover? What did he teach you as far as even during the time in 1993? The reason why this space is important and I asked you the question I asked you because we going to have listeners from different backgrounds and what they've been told about Larry Hoovers, that he's a monster. There's no way he should be free. He's a monster. He's responsible for the city of Chicago being in flames whenever it's being in flames. What's your position with that?

Big Durk (13:18):
They don't know him. They don't know Larry who they just going off of everything, everybody else going something on social media or something somebody else did and they want to equate that to him, but him as a person, they don't know him. Because when I just said I went to DeVry that I went to school, that was only because of him. He the one pushed, he pushed education then he always going to tell you go to school, he always going to tell you to do things with your life and stay on the educational path. He love to hear that when he hear that thing he helped push you on that. So no, it ain't nothing about no, oh go do this, go sell that. Go out there and kill that. None of that. I think in my mind when I was first getting to meet him, I thought there was going to be some type of old sit down, all this old gangster talk and I'm looking like it ain't no gangster talk in him.

Kanoya Ali (14:11):
Do you remember your first conversation?

Big Durk (14:13):
Yeah, that was one of the first conversations we had. He was just asking what you doing with your life, what you going, what you going to be on from this point on? So he was always trying to help you, guide you to something. Right. And as the time, you know it ain't faking because as the time go on, it's the same conversation. It's always the same. It ain't, he

Peter Cunningham (14:34):
Keep coming back to it and asking you what's up with it? What's up? Right. What you doing now? Wasn't he already in jail at this time? Yeah. So you would talk to him, you would visit him in jail or something like that? Right. I see. Where was he? He was in an Illinois prison at the time. Right? Vienna. Vienna. Okay.

Kanoya Ali (14:50):
You know what resonate with what you're saying and this is a hot topic because of right now what's going on, but what resonate with what you're saying is we had Billy Moore on the episode and he said the exact same thing, right? He said the same thing and so many other people that I personally talked to, I didn't come from that tribal organization but I've never heard someone say a different statement of his character meaning non-violence, look, we not enemies, let's start studying. Let's get into some kind of workforce development. So it is boggling to me when we deal with a society who has done so much wrong to so many different people, be so punitive of a person based on a action that may have occurred 50 years ago.

Big Durk (15:50):
But then you look at the brother Tuke from California, good brother and there doing things change his life, writing books, children books, doing things like this. So they created him had to be a monster. But then when you get to beat the man, you get to talk to man, interact with him, man, you see now this ain't his character but the media always going to paint you as a monster. That's what they do.

Kanoya Ali (16:17):
Before you came home, you was somewhat of a horrible guy. They had to give you I many life sentences.

Big Durk (16:24):
It only take one.

Kanoya Ali (16:25):
But how many did they, was it just one?

Big Durk (16:28):
Yeah, because judge said he ain't finna do nothing like that. One thing I can say about our judge, he was saying I'm not Finn, get multiple life sentences. What you going to die and come back and die and come back and die? I mean you only need one. So you ain't got tell a person you got five life sentence. What kind of of sentence do that make man?

Peter Cunningham (16:48):
So you got a life sentence. You served 26 years. So did you get them to change the sentence or is that that's kind of what they mean by life sentence.

Big Durk (16:57):
No life sentence mean you dying there way you coming out is in a box. But like I said, you learn the law. Every year I'm filing something, trying to figure something out and then by the grace of God we finally figured a way up out of there and we got granted some relief. And here I am on the show with y'all now. Yeah, here you

Kanoya Ali (17:23):
Are. You talking about 26 years in prison. How old were you at the time?

Big Durk (17:29):
I was in my early twenties when I left.

Kanoya Ali (17:31):
So you're talking about early twenties being sentenced to life and prison with the only way you come out of here is in a box and you had killed somebody, right? You had to kill somebody for that.

Peter Cunningham (17:48):
It was just drugs.

Kanoya Ali (17:49):
It's

Peter Cunningham (17:49):
A drug judge.

Kanoya Ali (17:50):
So you telling me a person can be sentenced to basically death in prison because of a nonviolent offense,

Big Durk (18:00):
Nonviolent drug offense, crack cocaine. So they sentenced in crack a hundred times toward the powder. So if you got one gram of crack, you actually got a hundred grams of powder. So that was

Peter Cunningham (18:16):
Because powder cocaine was popular among white people, but crack was popping among black people. So the sentences were a lot tougher on

Big Durk (18:23):
Crack. The disparity between the two was very harsh and inhumane and that's where a lot of, when they were sweeping up various organizations out there, they locking up people. It was always when you had crack you were stew.

Peter Cunningham (18:38):
I've heard you talk about how you regret what you did bringing all those drugs into the community and that today the work you do is your way of

Big Durk (18:47):
My form of redemption.

Peter Cunningham (18:49):
Yeah, you're a form of redemption. Talk a little bit about how you arrived at that.

Big Durk (18:54):
Once you're in prison you got time to do nothing but think. Get yourself together. So like I said, the first thing I did was get myself together with God and then I become a Muslim and then from that point on, Islam was the best thing that happened to me and to transfer me from the man I was to the man I am now. So it really gave me true manhood and the definition what a man is and what is my real purpose in life here. So once you get all those things embedded in you, then you become the type of your eyes just come open. Then you look at the things you used to do and you be like, whoa, that was me. I did those things. I sold those drugs. I was a womanizer like this. I was doing this and you regret them things and regret. Strong regret is something that you ain't going to go back to.

Peter Cunningham (19:54):
Nothing you can do about

Big Durk (19:55):
It. Right? So I really, I was such a clown back then that I wish I could have kicked my own self in the butt because of some of the things I did, especially with the neighborhoods and the people and keeping people addicted to drugs by giving them the drugs instead trying to find ways to find ways to help them. Knowing that I come from a family mother strung out on drugs, so I should have been a little bit

Peter Cunningham (20:22):
More, your mother was an abuser, drug abuser.

Big Durk (20:27):
So knowing all them things right there should have, but once your eyes come open you from this point on you start putting pieces together. So I just dedicated my life now to helping the young people out in the street with the work that I do with Chicago cred and is a beautiful feeling when you change the person's life. Help 'em to get straight now, put 'em on the right path.

Peter Cunningham (20:56):
What do you think these guys that we all serve at cred, and I know you are a life coach too, you said your title now is life coach and curriculum designer specialist, it's curriculum specialist. But both of you have a lot of experience as life coaches. What do you say to these young guys who are caught up in this life? I mean we know that there's thousands of kids who are in the pipeline to keep going right into this thing. What can we say to them?

Big Durk (21:22):
Your first thing that you want to evaluate the youngster that you probably talking to and then see what may fit with him to get his attention. You want to get his attention so you can start feeding him the things that he need to know to start making better choices in life. So it's just about getting to know him first. Interact with, so mentorship is big and it should be a point. But as life coach, that's what we try to do. We try to mentor them to try to get them some understanding and once we start building a relationship with 'em, then we can start directing. They'll start listening now. And you do that from the experience that we have from being in prison, being in the street, doing the things that we do. So all these things that you try to think was something that you can glorify. We try and tell you no this ain't nothing to glorify right here because the things that we had to do suffer being in jail with a life sentence, losing your family while you there. All these things, you don't want to go through that right there. So that's one of the things

Peter Cunningham (22:27):
Kids do. The young people have to be in a certain receptivity state of mind before they can hear it or you feel like you can get to all of 'em if you just build some trust

Big Durk (22:38):
And that's what you Yes, because that's what you want to do. This generation here, yeah, you got to build a little because this generation here is something special.

Peter Cunningham (22:50):
They get a lot of stuff coming at them. I mean they see a million images that we didn't see when we were growing up. Maybe you saw, well you probably saw plenty of things. Not certainly things I didn't see. But still the younger ones today seem to have just an endless access to violence to anything they want. They can see anything online

Big Durk (23:13):
And this helped keep 'em in the state that they in. It's only feeding that negative mind state and it's another fight that we got another part that we got to fight against. Now we got to fight against social media and everybody thinking that social media is the outlet for they fame for some reason. Everybody want to get points on social media for some reason. And that's scary because back in our days you would never catch us on social media, man we from cameras and everything, everything else. You don't even want to be in a picture with certain people. So that's let's known being on social media with some showing guns, doing this, shooting up. So all these things here

Kanoya Ali (23:59):
Just to bring it back to your son D thing, man, I know him being a part of your life and then him returning to God passing away, that affected you deeply because I know the relationship that you guys had, man, how you dealing with that? The loss.

Big Durk (24:19):
A parent can't never, we just go day by day. It's always something in you that always haunts you and it's always something in you make you feel like, did I do all I can? So these things here is always give you that time right there to hunt. It ain't nothing you can really, you just pray every day for strength and make it through another day, another day, another day, another day. But you constantly going to think about your child all the time about what he be doing now. Then when they leave kids behind, it makes it even more harder because the children missing their father and you missing your child. So it kind of,

Peter Cunningham (25:05):
That's a couple of years ago, right?

Big Durk (25:06):
Yeah, that's a few years ago.

Kanoya Ali (25:08):
Yeah. Transitioning from the death of deed thing and then having this big event with the Muslims coming together in Chicago. Your son, little Dirk putting on this big event. I remember him posting on social media that he wanted to bring all the Muslims together in Chicago and pray for a prayer. And then that actually happened right after that. He was actually arrested. How long was from the prayer to him being arrested, how long was that? I

Big Durk (25:41):
Think a week or so. Maybe a week. Almost two weeks. Somewhere up in there.

Peter Cunningham (25:46):
Yeah. So fill us in right now on little Dirk, how things are going there. Talk a little bit about just what it was like to see him succeed the way he did. You were still serving time but he was coming up and then

Big Durk (26:02):
I really, I tell people this all the time, I really didn't take the rap thing serious.

Peter Cunningham (26:08):
Yeah.

Big Durk (26:10):
Until it was only when I got out it is actually kind of went that direction. But in prison I didn't know too much about the, even though he had songs and different things like that out right there, I still didn't because I tell everybody, everybody wanted every child, especially in the African-American neighborhood want to be some sport. Some rapper is always in that. So I'd be like okay, I'm more of a go to school, pick up a trade, these type of I'm that type of parent. So you say you want to be around, okay. Yeah. Alright. Everybody want to be a rapper? Get backup plan. Right. What you going to do? Go to school, what you like doing. So get you a trade up under your belt so you can have something to fall back on just in case the rap ain't going to work out. Yeah, right. But then like I said, it was ironic because when I got the life sentence off, I was in California in Victorville, so it was in Victorville when I first know that this was serious.

Peter Cunningham (27:20):
Oh you were serving in a California prison?

Big Durk (27:22):
Yeah,

Peter Cunningham (27:23):
In

Big Durk (27:23):
Victorville ain't something he in California, but I was saying is I'm in Victorville right in California and he tell me, he say, Hey, I'm going to be on BET. So I said BET, wait man, you might be doing something now. And that's when I kind of started looking at it at that time. Right,

Peter Cunningham (27:43):
Realizing that something's cooking here, right?

Big Durk (27:45):
Yeah. And then when I seen him on BETI was like okay, he got a little talent here

Peter Cunningham (27:51):
And he's been hugely successful, right?

Big Durk (27:53):
Yeah. But I really asked his brother about his talent also. He kept pushing the thing. I said, can he really do? He said, yeah, he good, but then the BET thing come in. So it kind of confirmed it

Kanoya Ali (28:05):
When you seen your son as the rise was going, him making a rise and his transition from kind of just being talk. I remember having this talk with you early when you first started working with me and I was telling you, I said, nah Chief Keith and you said you told me no, just watch you just wait a minute. Some things is happening and I think T Key is still at his stardom, but I think Dirk has gotten, he's up in that space at that time he just wasn't in that same, he was there. But I feel like there can be a debate back and forth who's been more influential. I think both of 'em been great successes in Chicago, but as far as this generation, I don't think it's anybody else that can say they've been musically have touched that many people through outside of Chicago or throughout Chicago. Other than those two names, I only speak to that because I think that what your son is going through right now, do you think him being tied to the music and his faith, do you think that has any validity to what's happening at all the music and his faith? Is that connected to what's transpiring? Why do think this is happening right now?

Big Durk (29:43):
Well one of the things I can say, I'm not big on conspiracy theories. I try to stay away from that because as a Muslim a lot controls all things. We definitely look into things when they seem strange though to try to find out is there some other negative motivation behind it. So when you look at this, in his case you see that there was indictment go down, right? So he's not on the first indictment so that tell y'all the mag, you ain't got enough evidence to go to grand jury and do nothing. So then now that you see he going to Dubai and you thinking there's something funny with this, so now you want to go trump up some little stuff and then bring him in and all this behind everything. They're trying to do a movement in the industry that's built itself on negative talk and now you ain't talking that way no more. You ain't doing these things no more. Now you're trying to pull people together, different things like that. Then what we got here, that's even, let's go back to the Larry Hoover thing. Let's go back to that. As long as long as they saying it is gangs, it is drugs, it's gang violence. It's cool. Soon as he get into politics, oh no it's time. Wait something wrong here.

Peter Cunningham (31:09):
Is that what happened with Hoover?

Big Durk (31:11):
Yeah. As soon as he started talking politics and start forming the young guys into 21 century vote and y'all get out there now and y'all go march down there on city hall. Oh no, we can keep an eye on you then. But when you start talking about politics and you got the power to move people in and out of office, then that's the issue. So now you start talking about unifying Muslims. Islam is a fast growing religion in Chicago, especially amongst the inner city. So now this is a problem here. You

Peter Cunningham (31:45):
Think people are afraid of Islam.

Big Durk (31:48):
People always been afraid of Islam because Islam is a religion that discipline a person. It give you that type of discipline where you stand strong up upon your faith over everything else. So there's no compromise with Islam, a lot of things you can see compromise, but we ain't into compromise when it comes to the creator because he the one that created everything. So how can you compromise someone who gave you what you got in life?

Peter Cunningham (32:21):
We were talking to here last night and he was talking about how a bunch of guys converted on O block and the shootings have pretty much stopped there because of that. So do you think Islam is something that can help with our goal of reducing gun violence? You think so?

Big Durk (32:39):
That's one of the main things person needs to create in their life in order to make these true strong conviction in life is one thing. Even when you see I never been abuse of drugs or alcohol. I ain't never even did none, I'm tell you truth, but I have sat in AA just to, I wanted to see what was going on. One of the criteria they tell you and push you towards is a belief in God because that's stronger conviction that you'll stay away from

(33:11):
This right here. So let's use that now. So we pushing some, but we need God to be a part of it in order to make sure that strong conviction you can say, hey, I'm changed. I can say I can change way before I became a Muslim, but I ain't got nothing that really strong in me to help push that. But when I became a Muslim say I'm changing, I don't want to sell drugs no more. I don't want gang bang no more. Then hey, now it's more stronger within me with that type of conviction that God he's the creator. He sees all things as opposed to you limiting your sight. I can fool you but I can't fool him. So it's that type of thing, seeing that all knowing that he sees and here and knows all things. So I can't get away from certain things.

Kanoya Ali (33:58):
Well the rumor is throughout social media what you'd like recruiting you recruiting guys to become Muslim. Is that what you doing?

Big Durk (34:10):
Oh that's the best recruit. Then I take that label, give you that label right there. Yes. I'm always trying to recruit all y'all in here. Hopefully we get a shot at Shahada about this. Yeah, think you might be able to get one of those. The bird end of this now,

Kanoya Ali (34:30):
And we talked about this before as of lately, it's some negative comments about the pushing peace movement, the Muslim trend thing happening, but the violence is decrease. It's not at a stop. Do you think the Muslim and Islam conversioning happening in Chicago has anything to do with the decrease of violence?

Big Durk (35:01):
I'm going to say this in Islam we said him do the lie that mean all praise be the creator God. And we say that because if anything good happened, we praise God for it. So if there is a decrease in violence, we set him doah. He controls that the amount of Muslim coming into Islam. Yes, that's telling you that he converting it. Anybody can make a Muslim as God. So once he convert them, he converting them for a reason. And the reason is the push that hey, you once was a person who had that gun and want to go out there and shoot someone. But now after Islam, Islam one of the most principle in Islam that we find life to be sacred. So it ain't no more killing nothing. Not even to the point where when I'm cleaning my garage out, if I see something little, even a little bug or something, I sweep 'em up and then go put 'em in the grass. This

Peter Cunningham (36:00):
You don't kill 'em,

Big Durk (36:01):
Step on them, right? We ain't going to step on them because all life is sacred to us, even to the smallest of that little bug.

Peter Cunningham (36:07):
Now gun violence has been a problem in Chicago for at least 60 years. I mentioned last night that we haven't had under 400 homicides since 1965, seventies and the nineties were both high points. Why do you think the Islam thing is happening now More, and I mentioned obviously we used to have still have the nation of Islam. It's a different kind of wing of the wing of the movement. But still in all, why is it picking up now?

Big Durk (36:37):
Because young people is searching for something to hold on, something with substance to it and Islam, I'm giving them that. Even when I was trying to, I was lost and I'm trying to find something to hold on to give me something to give me some internal peace, some contentment, something that my soul is asking for something you hungry and out of all the things and I'm in prison and I'm looking all I'm going to all the religious groups, I'm trying to find something to hold onto. Islam was the only religion I didn't look into. I was looking to all the other religions in prison, especially when you go in the chapel area, you got many different religions that practice in there. So everybody got a slot and the time to come in and do their worship.

Peter Cunningham (37:19):
Baptist committed

Big Durk (37:20):
Some project

Peter Cunningham (37:21):
And then

Big Durk (37:22):
Jehovah Witness, even American native Americans come in there. Everybody got their time slot to come in there and worship at the time. So I stay in there and I'll look into what they doing.

Peter Cunningham (37:33):
Oh you stayed for all of them and check 'em all out and

Big Durk (37:35):
Check 'em all out. But the Muslims, I was like they were serious. So when you said serious you get, you still kind, you can get away with a few things and these other religious, you can let your hair down a little bit. But Islam, they were serious. They was on point.

Peter Cunningham (38:00):
Well we should probably wrap it up, but we really appreciate the conversation. We could go on and on talking about this stuff. This is the work you do, the work, Ali does the work that so many people are doing and something's going right because the numbers are really, really going in the right direction. So

Kanoya Ali (38:16):
Right now, Peter, can you tell us right now how many of, what's the toll as far as lives lost in the city of Chicago right now,

Peter Cunningham (38:25):
This year to date with about 150 homicides and about, I don't know, maybe five, 600 shootings.

Kanoya Ali (38:32):
So we end

Peter Cunningham (38:36):
Of May five months in we're about 50 and that's down about 25%. So would've been probably 200 last year at this time.

Kanoya Ali (38:45):
The goal is to stay away from any, but we want to get to where there is no census murders. But right now being under, you say 500 murders,

Peter Cunningham (39:00):
The mayor's goal is to get under 500 this year. And we were at 5 75 last year, total year.

Kanoya Ali (39:07):
And Chicago hasn't been under 500

Peter Cunningham (39:09):
Murders under 400 since 1965.

Kanoya Ali (39:11):
Under 400 since 1965.

Peter Cunningham (39:14):
So it's been a really long time since we, and that's still way too high.

Big Durk (39:18):
Yeah, I mean you set a goal to get up under 500 murder 400.

Peter Cunningham (39:25):
We still have more murders than any other city in the

Big Durk (39:27):
Country. I would say this two things now we just talked about Islam. So we push and continue to push youngsters out there to get a relationship with the creator and become Muslims if this what their heart is moved towards. But another thing that we are doing now is in Chicago cred, we pushing very heavy. So this is the pinnacle right now. This right now is a cornerstone. This right now is the pillar of what we pushing both in cred and in the street. So getting to that number is foreseeable up on the non-aggression.

Peter Cunningham (40:07):
Yeah, I think it's possible too.

Big Durk (40:10):
We're going to push that agenda of non-aggression and teaching these young guys to agree to non-aggression and agreeing to non-aggression is saying, I'm not going to slide that go peace. I'm not going to trespass that being out of bounds in someone else neighborhood that go peace, that I'm not going to be trolling on the internet that go peace, that I'm not going to backdoor my people that go peace being amongst Chicago cred and fulfilling this saying that everybody gets a path for me because Chicago cred and everything we do is a safe haven for them. And then the last one, I'm not going to be around people with this negative aggressive body language that go peace. So when we push these six principles out there and people agree to 'em and these neighborhoods agree to 'em, then we can bring that all the way down because everybody going to stay in they neighborhood and we going to develop the peace that we looking for.

Peter Cunningham (41:08):
Peace leads to peace leads to peace, right? More

Kanoya Ali (41:10):
Peace gets more peace. You plan to go into different neighborhoods throughout and talk to some of the people in the neighborhood just about the non-aggression agreements. You want to speak on that.

Big Durk (41:27):
So that's what, trying to get that number down this summer, we already trying to get in the front of it. So we going to take non-aggression out into the neighborhoods. We got it inside the buildings in our hub sites in Chicago cred. But now we going to go out there because everybody ain't a part of Chicago cred in them neighborhoods. So if we go out there, talk to them, tell them what the ones that's inside the Chicago creators practicing and can we join on, can you join on with them in order to promote this? So we looking to go out there, do what? Right here, do some little podcasts and put 'em out there. Let 'em know. Give us a verbal agreement out there and hopefully this'll be a thing that we can start seeing a change. We want a summer that's even less than that 500 because I think the 500 is too high.

Peter Cunningham (42:22):
Way too high. Alright, thank you very much for your time.

Big Durk (42:24):
Hey, I appreciate y'all because most interviews I'll be on is always about my son, but we kind of kept it bound. Yeah, no,

Kanoya Ali (42:39):
That's all for this episode of License to Operate. Please subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share this episode with your friends. This podcast is co-produced by The Chi podcast and Cunningham Creative. Until next time, I'm Peter Cunningham. And I'm Kanoya Ali. All life is sacred, even the smallest of creatures.